Save discussion

[Pogie]

Hey guys, I was thinking about our discussion at the early session regarding saves and who is responsible for relaying information about what type of save, bonuses etc. After thinking it through I believe I handled it correctly, lol.

The crux of the issue for me, in this instance, is that if I were to announce 'make me a fort save versus poison' I'm giving you information you don't know, thereby subverting the knowledge check mechanics. IIRC Paul had made a knowledge check on Linnorms gaining one question which was special defenses. You gained knowledge about it breathing fire from the chic in the cave giving you the ring of Fire res and declaring it breathed fire. There was not a knowledge check made for special attacks that told you it had a poison attack so I shouldnt tell you to save versus poison when the party is unaware of it. If there was a knowledge check on attacks and I neglected to mention poison then that's on me but that is a different discussion.

Now if the party was told that the dragon had a poison bite attack, a player gets bit and then the dm asks that player for a fort save, it's a reasonable inference that that player may be in danger of being poisoned. At that point the player could say 'I got a 20 or a 24 if it's poison'. It's actually a running joke at a lot of tables where the player continually adds '.....+2 if it's versus fear' for EVERY save. Alternately the dm, knowing that the party knows about the poison could ask for a save against poison but in my experience the former scenario of the player offering that info is far more common.

Anyway those are my thoughts on it. I can't say I went through that entire thought process at the table. In my experience the player always offers that information and in this case, retroactively I believe it was handled correctly. Now about the other 8 things I messed up........

I will probably enquirer about this on the Paizo boards as I always want to make an attempt to get things correct.

[CDragos]

When you ask a player to make a save just ask if they have any conditional bonuses as well. I'll always ask the GM (if they don't tell me) if it's a fear, poison, or whatever effect.

Or, be descriptive with the effect.

GM: "The giant, fuzzy, purple, eight-legged creature sinks its serrated teeth into you for *rolls dice*... 49 damage. As it pulls its toothy maw away from you, you see a glistening green substance dripping from its teeth. Suddenly, it feels like fire flowing through your veins and you feel very drowsy. Make a Fort & a Will save."

[Pogie]

I like the idea of describing the effects Christian. It conveys the info the player needs while adding flavor. I'm going to try and do that more often.

[CDragos]

Also, I like to be more descriptive with player's attacks. I like to know what primary weapon each player is usung. I get this info during character introduction. Then, instad of saying "you hit, roll damage." Say things like, "your rapier pierces through the bandit's chainmail -roll damage." Or, "your greatsword gets deflected off the Evil Ice Queen's aura. You see a ripple of blue energy." (Shield spell or mage armor). And it really gets a player excited when you let them describe that critical hit they just made!

Being more descriptive makes the game more exciting.

[Edwardteach]

I think each GM can run their game in their own way. I am not disagreeing with you at all Tim, just telling the players to make a save versus poison takes a lot out of the game. Great advice too Christian, always looking to up the game.